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Comments posted by Rashmun
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Mistakes Rookies Make
Dear Neela, i hope all is well at ur end. The reason i am writing to u is because i am kind of missing the discussions i used to have with u and other folks like Ratan, VGR, Bhaskar Rao, and subash raman. I read a book on the partition of India recently by a former advocate general of maharashtra called Seervai, and it would have been really interesting ur take on his views about the reasons for partition, and about the protagonists of the partition like nehru, jinnah, maulana azad, patel, etc. Since i am not particularly keen in posting on sulekha anymore, i was wondering if u would like to join a yahoo list i am thinking of starting up; u'll recall i had talked about this once long ago. Having a yahoo list of our own in which less than a dozen posters post, would also give us the luxury of posting/replying once a week or even once in two weeks if we are particularly busy; this is not possible on Sulekha CH. Let me know if ur interested. Rgds Satya
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More On The IDRF Saga - The Twists And Turns
The Chairman of the NHRC--who heads the organization both literally and figuratively--is appointed by the Government in power. The present Chairman was appointed by the BJP led government, as was Verma. If the Chairman decides to move against genocide/pogroms; and declares that terrorists must not be summarily executed, but must be given a hearing (reason given for this is that we want to know the causes for terrorism, and eliminate those causes); then i suggest u guys had better blame the BJP led government if u have a problem with the NHRC's decisions, instead of whining and complaining here. For that matter, the BJP also appointed Lyngdoh as CEC, and lived to regret the decision. -Rashmun
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:I read it as well-intentioned hyperbole. "Most celebrated and intriguing of India's Islamic monuments?" If they were, we both would have heard of them a long, long time ago.
--> I am not an expert on Islamic architecture. I know of very few prominent Islamic architectures properly, and these are the ones i have visited personally. The ones i know of first hand include structures in delhi (like Humayun's Tomb) and agra (Taj Mahal) and also in Aurangabad, Maharashtra (bibi ka maqbara--the replica of Taj Mahal, built by Aurangzeb's son ). I have never visited Fatehpur Sikri till date.
:Of course, any "survey" of Islamic architecture would not be literally "complete" unless it included every single Islamic monument -- that says nothing. The fact that no other book before this one tackled the subject points to the significance of these monuments compared to those of neighboring regions like Telangana and Karanataka, not to speak of Delhi and Agra.
--> I suspect that there are only a handful of books on this subject.
"Mosques and tombs in Deccan, especially at Rayalaseema are most celebrated and intriguing of India's Islamic Monuments. No survey of Islamic Architecture would be complete without these, and yet no work has ever before considered in its entirety or in its context. In this book, Rangachar Vasantha combines the most thorough study ever made of these magnificent monuments with an original investigation.
::With respect to ur claim that i am reading too much into the book review, could u explain what is ur interpretation of the following extract from the book:
:I read it as well-intentioned hyperbole. "Most celebrated and intriguing of India's Islamic monuments?" If they were, we both would have heard of them a long, long time ago.
--> I am not an expert on Islamic architecture. I know of very few prominent Islamic architectures properly, and these are the ones i have visited personally. The ones i know of first hand include structures in delhi (like Humayun's Tomb) and agra (Taj Mahal) and also in Aurangabad, Maharashtra (bibi ka maqbara--the replica of Taj Mahal, built by Aurangzeb's son ). I have never visited Fatehpur Sikri till date.
:Of course, any "survey" of Islamic architecture would not be literally "complete" unless it included every single Islamic monument -- that says nothing. The fact that no other book before this one tackled the subject points to the significance of these monuments compared to those of neighboring regions like Telangana and Karanataka, not to speak of Delhi and Agra.
--> I suspect that there are only a handful of books on this subject.
--> On this particular point (whether Rayalaseema has 'celebrated' Islamic monuments), i would like to drop the discussion for now pending either my personal visit to Rayalaseema, or discussion with scholars who know more about this subject, or reading up further on this subject.
"Mosques and tombs in Deccan, especially at Rayalaseema are most celebrated and intriguing of India's Islamic Monuments. No survey of Islamic Architecture would be complete without these, and yet no work has ever before considered in its entirety or in its context. In this book, Rangachar Vasantha combines the most thorough study ever made of these magnificent monuments with an original investigation.
--> With respect to the Nizams, i thought u had agreed earlier that they are to be considered in some ways Mughals. The First Nizam was the son of a high ranking Mughal Noble; culturarlly the first Nizam was a Mughal. And so, his descendants can be construed of as being representatives of Mughal culture (in things like paintings, food, handicrafts, architecture, and so forth).
:OK, but the Mughal influence was not sustained. The Mughals relied on the local Muslim aristocracy. Just like the influence of Mongols from Central Asia on the Mughal Empire died out after Akbar's time, direct Mughal influence on Hyderabad ebbed rather soon after Aurangzeb's death.
:OK, but the Mughal influence was not sustained. The Mughals relied on the local Muslim aristocracy. Just like the influence of Mongols from Central Asia on the Mughal Empire died out after Akbar's time, direct Mughal influence on Hyderabad ebbed rather soon after Aurangzeb's death.
--> Mongol influence probably waned because Jahangir's mother and Shah Jahan's mother were Rajputs. And yet it had come into play at the time of the coronation of Jahangir. When Akbar was on his deathbed, there was some dispute about whether the successor should be Jahangir or Jahangir's son Khusrau. The majority of the nobles supported Jahangir on the ground that in the Chaghatai Turks (Babur was a descendant of the Turk Timur from his father's side and Chinghez Khan's son Chagatai from his mother's side), the eldest son of a deceased ruler has the first claim to the throne.
--> Regarding Mughal influence in Hyderabad, and also in other parts of Andhra, the flourishing of miniature paintings (and also some Islamic handicrafts patronized by the Mughals) in Andhra, down to modern times means that Mughal influence did not wane but continued. Secondly, the great emphasis on lavish food in the hyderbadi culture seems to be a direct outcome of the Mughal love for good food. Biriyani, to the best of my knowledge, was originally a Mughal dish and its preparation/recipe has been described in the Ain-i-Akbari of Abul Fazl. In fact, hyderbadi food seems to be no different from or only a slight variation of Mughal/Mughalai food.The recipe for making the samosa, eaten all over India (including Andhra) even today, had been first imported by the Mughals from central asia. If there exist Mughal Gardens in Andhra (as i showed they do in Tamil Nadu) it would be further evidence of mughal influence in andhra culture. (Mughal Gardens have certain distinctive, peculiar features.)
On
With respect to ur claim that i am reading too much into the book review, could u explain what is ur interpretation of the following extract from the book:
"Mosques and tombs in Deccan, especially at Rayalaseema are most celebrated and intriguing of India's Islamic Monuments. No survey of Islamic Architecture would be complete without these, and yet no work has ever before considered in its entirety or in its context. In this book, Rangachar Vasantha combines the most thorough study ever made of these magnificent monuments with an original investigation.
--> Here are the details of the book again:
Islamic Architecture of Deccan (With Special Emphasis on Rayalaseema Region)/R. Vasantha and M.A. Mannan Basha. New Delhi, Sharada Pub., 2004, xiii, 197 p., maps, plans, illustrations, $83. ISBN 81-85616-71-X.
--> With respect to bibi nanchamma, it is somewhat irrelevant to this discussion and in fact i had deleted that sentence in my blog; i must have forgotten to delete it in the Note i sent u.
--> With respect to the Nizams, i thought u had agreed earlier that they are to be considered in some ways Mughals. The First Nizam was the son of a high ranking Mughal Noble; culturarlly the first Nizam was a Mughal. And so, his descendants can be construed of as being representatives of Mughal culture (in things like paintings, food, handicrafts, architecture, and so forth).
On
1.V.Ragahvan seems to present a very narrow view of hinduism .
2. I believe in svabhava-vada which is accepted by not only Charvaka/Lokayata, but also Sankhya and early nyaya-vaisesika. Sankhya definitely cannot be said to be a non-hindu philosophy given its great prestige in the history of hinduism.
3. Sankhya Karika of Ishwar Krishna (earliest known Sankhya manual) begins with the claim that Vedas are marked with errors. Does this mean Sankhya should also be considered a non-hindu philosophy? Only a fool or a bigot will say this. In fact, a person outlaying such a narrow view of hinduism forfeits his right to call himself a hindu, in my estimate.
4. Madhavacharya, founder of Dvaita Vedanta, says that in sensual/sexual matters, direct perception gets precedence over anything written in the Vedas. Thus, Madhava tells us that blindly accepting anything written in the Vedas would only lead to misfortune.
5. Kulluka Bhatta, the traditional commentator of Manu Smriti, says 'srutis are twofold--the Vedic and the Tantrik'. This is a recognition of the fact that Tantrism is an important non-vedic component of hinduism.
On
Amused666 writes:
Rashmun:
U seemed to be confused in your stance. U say that several hindu sects had beliefs very close to atheism. Hence hindus have right to call themselves atheist. U even say that fundementally mimansa has atheism. Please accept any one of the six darsanas and call urself a hindu. Or be brave and call urself atheist. U donot accept any one entirely, u collect bits and pieces everywhere, and make a patch work of your own version of hinduism. This is what I call hindu hypocrisy. Why do need a hindu identity when there is something more appropriate for u, materialist atheism. Please allows hindus to live peacefully without corrupting it with your own idealogy.
U seemed to be confused in your stance. U say that several hindu sects had beliefs very close to atheism. Hence hindus have right to call themselves atheist. U even say that fundementally mimansa has atheism. Please accept any one of the six darsanas and call urself a hindu. Or be brave and call urself atheist. U donot accept any one entirely, u collect bits and pieces everywhere, and make a patch work of your own version of hinduism. This is what I call hindu hypocrisy. Why do need a hindu identity when there is something more appropriate for u, materialist atheism. Please allows hindus to live peacefully without corrupting it with your own idealogy.
--> Well, i have already stated that i believe in Nature. In terms of ancient hindu philosophy, i accept svabhava-vada (doctrine of Nature or Naturalism). I cannot be blamed if svabhava-vada is also accepted by Lokayata/Charvaka, Sankhya, and early Nyaya-Vaisesika. I also invoke the Mimansa because the Mimansa philosophers have done a fine job of refuting theism and philosophical idealism.
--> So u are right that my position cannot be characterised by one particular school of hindu philosophy, although i think the differences between early Nyaya-Vaisesika, Sankhya (specifically the school of Sankhya described in Charaka Samhita and described by Pancashikha in Mahabharata) and also Charvaka/Lokayata are very minor.
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for my love
thanks for the kind words of encouragement, impedimenta and maria. this was an impromptu kind of writeup, an expression of feelings that were within me.
i plan to write more about her in the near future.
have to say it feels nice to be in love with someone who loves you. i feel blessed.
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